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Author Topic: Let's Talk About Baguji  (Read 2124 times)

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Offline Imperia

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« on: August 24, 2013, 02:26:35 PM »
This is a topic that has confused me ever since I completed Klonoa 2 for the first time... nearly five years ago.

Alright, so by the end of the game we find out that Baguji was being controlled by the King of Sorrow. My first assumption was that he was a puppet created by the King of Sorrow that he controlled through telepathy. More recently, however, I feel like Baguji may have been possessed by the King of Sorrow to lead Klonoa to Hyuponia, and when he falls limp, the King of Sorrow just completely overtakes his body, and maybe even his power. I mean, the king is the final boss.

Popka refers to Baguji as "the best prophet in Lunatea," so obviously Baguji has a decent reputation. Lolo even calls him "Master Baguji" the first time you visit his island, as if she's known and respected him for a while. Was the King of Sorrow really a puppeteer of this "prophet" ever since the fifth kingdom was forgotten? Or was Baguji really a wise prophet at some point and fell under the king's influence?

Offline the_darai

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 02:49:09 PM »
Wow, you just...blew my mind xD

Honestly, I always thought that Leorina was disguised as Baguji, which in turn was controlled by the King. I don't think I really paid a lot of atttention to that part of the story. I do know that Baguji couldn't figure out Klonoa's future though.


Offline Aura24

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 11:45:29 PM »
I say he was a puppet manipulated by the King of Sorrow the whole time.
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Offline Spirit Macardi

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 11:53:53 AM »
That's... A really good question o.o

He very well could have been simply a puppet under the King's control for all those years, though it's also possible that he did possess a certain amount of sentience. Or maybe he represented the last bits of sanity that the King still had, since after the reveal is when his powers finally go out of control.

Offline confuted

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 09:37:02 PM »
I always believed that Baguji was the KoS in disguise. Baguji's prophecies were too accurate and coincidental for simple generalized visions. Also the KoS had nothing to gain by deleting a prominent person from the world of LV; people do not just disappear from stories like Baguji did just for the KoS to suddenly appear without Baguji in-tow immediately after. Nobody truly knew the face of KoS so it was easy to create an alter-ego and conveniently make prophecies that always came true. Furthermore I found it weird for a high ranking Priestess to rely on Baguji anyway; he provided no more direction to gathering the elements than she did. Lastly none of the elements possessed the ability to control other people aside from afflicting emotions thus making a 'puppet' through sorrow without a motive would have been difficult.

Baguji was never captured or killed, 'he' was the KoS baiting the return of Klonoa and sorrow.

that's my beliefs
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 09:39:21 PM by confuted »

Offline Vincentmrl

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 05:37:05 PM »
Quote from: "the_darai"
Wow, you just...blew my mind xD

Honestly, I always thought that Leorina was disguised as Baguji, which in turn was controlled by the King. I don't think I really paid a lot of atttention to that part of the story. I do know that Baguji couldn't figure out Klonoa's future though.
Remember Popka smelled a different smell than baguji's. When you meet KOS, he even says something about Baguji, "False prophecies" so it's confirmed

Offline confuted

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 01:28:24 AM »
Quote from: "Vincentmrl"
Quote from: "the_darai"
Honestly, I always thought that Leorina was disguised as Baguji, which in turn was controlled by the King.
Remember Popka smelled a different smell than baguji's. When you meet KOS, he even says something about Baguji, "False prophecies" so it's confirmed
um...^^^ confuses me a bit; confirms what exactly? What I am reading from the 2 quotes is that Baguji was Leorina in disguise and Leorina was controlled by KOS...surely I am misinterpreting the linking word "it" in the last sentence of the quote.

Anyway I had forgotten about Popka saying that though it doesn't entirely debunk my thoughts. I'm still thinking Baguji was the KOS in disguise; the KOS "summoned" Klonoa after he 'falsely' prophesied the return of a dream traveler and the 5th bell by using his Baguji disguise. The KOS acting as the Baguji alter ego pitted Klonoa on the mission to activate the bells so the bell of Sorrow would re-emerge because the KOS could not do it himself. It would make sense for the KOS to eventually let Leorina usurp the disguise of Baguji just to have her claim the elements and fall to their power eventually bringing about the last bell. It was probably the KOS's fault to underestimate Klonoa's abilities as the dream traveler and be outmatched in the final battle of 'revenge'/spite.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:30:33 AM by confuted »

Offline Chibibug

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2014, 08:42:31 PM »
Quote from: "Aura24"
I say he was a puppet manipulated by the King of Sorrow the whole time.
Me too. As for his reputation, could it be that the King had been using him for a while even before Klonoa arrived? The King obviously had thought out his plan very well.

BONUS, did you guys notice the change in Leorina's eyes after Klonoa defeated her monster form? When she disguised herself as Baguji to trick Klonoa's group into handing her the elements, suddenly you hear her words and the King's echoing each other. I think she was being manipulated by the King in some form from the beginning of the game to the time of her defeat at the Embryo Compass.

I guess the lesson here is you don't mess with the King of Sorrow. He isn't joking around.  X_X

Quote from: "Vincentmrl"
Remember Popka smelled a different smell than baguji's. When you meet KOS, he even says something about Baguji, "False prophecies" so it's confirmed
At that moment Leorina was disguised as Baguji, but Popka noticed the difference in smell too late. #IamCaptainObvious
 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 08:53:16 PM by Chibibug »

Offline Tails' Fake Rings

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2014, 09:15:31 PM »
From the moment Leo left La-Lakoosha to pursue power and up to the point where Lunatea's Veil starts, The King of Sorrow managed to take advantage of Leorina's desires and greatly influence her actions (but not fully take over).

Leorina was still herself, just heavily swayed to work toward the King of Sorrow's goal. Hence, she didn't know Baguji was merely a puppet that the King of Sorrow used to move about Lunatea, and that's why she mentioned that Baguji was out running errands when she removed her disguise of him.

This influence was broken when Klonoa defeated her as Cursed Leorina, as her eyes before then were dull and lifeless, but after the battle, a shine returned to them.

I believe Leorina transformed into Cursed Leorina because of the great power of the elements. When the King of Sorrow was influencing her, that counted as her having the Element of Sorrow in her possession, which, with the other four Elements, retained a balance. However, just before Leorina fired a wind bullet at Klonoa, the King of Sorrow dropped his influence over her and immediately shattered the elemental balance, causing the power to overtake and transform her.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 09:22:16 PM by Fake Ring »

Offline MMZenex

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Let's Talk About Baguji
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 07:32:11 PM »
...Ok, I didn't expect my mind to be blown away from reading all of these. Thinking about it a bit more and it all does make a lot of sense... but oh man... X_X