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Author Topic: My problem with the Klonoa franchise.  (Read 192 times)

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Offline rapappa the pepper

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My problem with the Klonoa franchise.
« on: June 07, 2024, 03:32:19 pm »
The problem isn't that there aren't any new games, you know me... Any game i play, isn't even new, anything i play, is old, and i re-play plenty of games that are old!

For most fans, the problem of the Klonoa franchise, is that it's dead! But, i don't think so.
Some games got even less than Klonoa got, yet... Some of these games, can even be great at keep you going back to it.
This isn't to say the Klonoa games are not replayable at all, but, yeah, i think there is more than that as well.
I don't think having a new entry would save the franchise, specially when people don't ever acknowledge problems about it, i know, it's a very big passion towards. I was there too, but, i think i've grown out of Klonoa...?  :unsure:
But the chances are very unlikely even, for a new entry to even fix these issues, even if acknowledged...

Okay, so... What are my problems with the

1-A franchise automaticaly isn't good when the first game is the best at everything.
Yeah, for people who roam around here, already may know that... I think the best game, is Door to Phantomile (1997 / 1998 version), i kinda like Lunatea's Veil of course, but... Yeah, i don't like that game that much, i think it's, decent! But not a magical, hidden masterpiece that has been overlooked by all, which is how basicaly the entire Klonoa fandom sees Lunatea's Veil as, but... I see Door to Phantomile as that, maybe it's because i didn't grow up playing Lunatea's Veil, most fans got to know about Klonoa there, or maybe the GBA games.
Not a personal attack on you of course, if anything, cool that you like the GBA games! (though i am tired of Lunatea's Veil being the fan favorite all the time and i don't like the GBA games)

Klonoa: Door to Phantomile, was the very first in the series, and it already did it all!  :O Which is a rare breed for first entries. It is the game that plays the best, with the best pacing, best difficulty and balance, with the most consistently amazing soundtrack (among my favorites of the PS1!), my favorite characters, my favorite, oh my god, everything about this game...!  :big_smile: It's unmatched, and somehow feels unique to the franchise it-self at this point. There are some more unique games like Beach Volleyball and Heroes... But i feel like they aren't that strong for me, but, that is me of course! But... Yeah... Most people wanting a new entry, seems to want a more derivative of Lunatea's Veil game.
This is i think, the game to really do the best balance of gameplay and presentation, speaking of which...

2-Presentation is its strongest point, rather than gameplay (for the most part?)
Door to Phantomile plays the best, but when we talk about presentation... Well, it's a different story, if i speak personally, yes i love Door to Phantomile's the most, everything is characterized so well, i love the super 90s cutesy feel of it all, yet how it blends in darker turns for that timeless maturity, while there are things like this in Lunatea's Veil... Well, not as much honestly, it never felt as impactful, nor did the story have as many cool points in my opinion, and felt, kinda filled with things that were asking for a second draft for refining, i also just like how adventerous Door to Phantomile feels, it's a one-go, it's immersive, look at how the stages progresses and their significance to the plot, i don't think a game has really captured this again since either...
But yeah i think Lunatea's Veil is rather good at presentation still, but, not as good, and specially, not as good at gameplay, often feeling a bit... boring if you ask me.  :sleeping: With many parts just feeling empty, and i don't like how you die too quickly with 3 hit points, the level design does not allow you to see enemies as true enemies anymore, other than "well you're being dumb!". But even then... I think any other game other than these 2, has kind of, not been as good at presentation either, and at gameplay? Oh my... Specially even worse, so what do i play this for?  :sick: And they are essentially built off of what was stabilished before, except, not as good.
With this, also makes these games kind of, less replayable per say, except for Door to Phantomile, which i re-visit yearly, but i don't really feel like re-visiting it often, other than, well, keep the tradition. But i have to say... These re-visits i do, kind of hurt the game if anything...
Nothing will ever match the first time i played this game to completion.
And i think this is what i see this game as, a dream i once had, to remember for, but not let it get to me... Just remember it for that experience i once had. It's a similar thing i had with Undertale. (even though that game is far more replayable lol)
And of course, it being the best at everything, essentially also means... Yeah... It's the only game i think i'd choose for ever replaying if i feel like it, because Door to Phantomile, is a game experience, more than just a game for me... But even tho it kinda reaches that for Lunatea's Veil, it never really reached it, it never felt as, "into it". Lunatea's Veil could've been an even better experience with worse gameplay, but, it isn't really...  :(
There isn't much bringing back to these games other than get all the collectibles, which is fine, but yeah, the Klonoa franchise has never really, oh wait... Okay, the next point-

3-Gameplay innovations being dropped?
Out of all games to do the most with its gameplay as a sequel, oddly enough was Dream Champ Tournament, but... Everything else is just... Eh...? Door to Phantomile for instance, brought to the table, foreground and background interactivity, which was kind of cool but, as a first entry, it showed it only could go up from here... Right...?
The only games to have this are Door to Phantomile and Lunatea's Veil, and, Lunatea's Veil, somehow not only does not bring anything new to the table and expanding upon its ideas, it does even less with it.  :sad_face: Every game since has just been strictly 2D, which, is fine, but, really throws some potential away from the franchise. The game to utilize it the most is, oddly enough Door to Phantomile still... At least, in a consistent level.
Even then, what has been stabilished in Door to Phantomile, grabbing enemies, throwing or using as a double jump, hasn't been expanded much upon either, every game playing, rather similarly, but worse and not innovating much. I guess Moonlight Museum and the Dream Champ Tournament, kinda don't fall there...? But now the experience is sacrificed, and, doesn't do enough still for me, as i don't think this glues as well with puzzle focuse.
Lunatea's Veil, i guess added the hover board stages, but it also barely utilizes it!  :angry2: It's a problem i have with the song "Stepping Wind" too, cool song and all, but it doesn't fit anything in that game, but i think every hover board stage needed to have songs with lyrics like this, instead of just, one that, doesn't even hold much significance?  :confused:

But yeah, every game just kinda fails to live up to Door to Phantomile since it was the very first, but also, never really expanded much upon it. I'll probably expand more upon this later.
Is this a forum they forgot, or has the forum forgot them?
Hello, pleased to meet you. Uhhhhh, i guess i like to draw traditionally a lot of Klonoa things, specifically for Whispers of Wind project, i make music for that too! As well as 3D models, not low poly Playstation fashioned tho, i like 90s Virtua Fighter 3 type models, any ways. You can know more about me at my Neo Cities:

Offline Cobra!

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Re: My problem with the Klonoa franchise.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2024, 04:11:43 pm »
I fundamentally disagree with the idea that the first game is the only good one. I think Klonoa 2 is the best in the series! The graphics are obviously far better, being a generation ahead, and adds to the lore and mysticism of the universe that I love so much.

Klonoa 2 added many new mechanics in the form of certain enemies. You had enemies that allowed you to shoot up to the sky in a bolt of lightning, to break boxes and whatnot on top of you. There were also enemies that sent you way up into the sky and you had to aim on the right spot as it drops you.
This was also used to split the levels, as some sections can only be accessed this way.
There was also one who had to hit others to change colour, used to break certain crystals. Some puzzles had you thinking how to get it to a certain colour using the other enemies around it.

There were also the board sections, where you surfed along in what was essentially an autoscroller. I recall a boss also used this.

Also, most importantly, Klonoa 1 was only 12 levels long. 13 if you count the bonus stage. Klonoa 2 really expanded on what made the first game so great and took far longer than half an hour to beat.

Offline HaggisD1

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Re: My problem with the Klonoa franchise.
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2024, 02:21:31 pm »
The Klonoa games don't really have anything to dive into.

The games just don't have the scale to dive into.
And the games aren't hard enough for any stratagies.

I think to bring the franchise to thrive would be an active speed running and modding community.

There just isn't a lot, to say about those games...  :(