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Author Topic: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory  (Read 2186 times)

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Offline Windbullet

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Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« on: July 05, 2014, 03:26:14 PM »
As we all know, the Wiimake's graphics aren't cel-shaded and the models, animations, etc. were reused from Klonoa 2 and we can assume this is due to time constraints. HOWEVER, if you look at artwork for the models.....

They are brighter and cel-shaded. After a bit of thinking I have come to the conclusion that the game had cel-shaded graphics and all that but they ended up losing most of everything in a server crash or something and had to reuse Klonoa 2's stuff as a result. What do you guys think?
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Offline Sable-Xeno

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 03:42:45 PM »
Hmmm...interesting. I heard somewhere that the game was made with a lowered budget...perhaps they originally meant to make them cel-shaded, but didn't, due to budget issues? Or maybe it was rushed? I dunno...I mean, Cel-shading is just a texture edit, it's just a layering over the graphic...if there were a "server crash" , then they'd also lose basic textures...or...stuff. I don't think it has anything to do with a server crash. (Also, there's the issue with the fact that several models from this game weren't in Klonoa 2 to be reused in the first place. Okay, I'm done over-analyzing.) Maybe they thought at the last second that it shouldn't be cel-shaded, and that it might look better as is? (Don't forget, that wasn't the only design choice they made. I guess they thought people would react similairly to That Klonoa redesign they made for this game...which they scrapped almost immediately, due to fan response.) Honestly, we'll never know, unless someone asks them at a convention, or something.

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Offline Spirit Macardi

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 04:47:55 PM »
This may have been done purely for promotional materials, since the art style within the game itself might not look that well on its own. Having it cel-shaded provides a more clear definition between the model and the background.

Offline Voka~Daemyn

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 09:23:25 PM »
I wish that they had done cel shadeing on character models.
Some cel shadeing via an old cartoon shader in the Open GL backend for dolphin.
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Offline NebulaVista

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2014, 10:59:34 PM »
Although cell shading can look cool, I think that it can look bad if over done too much.

Was Lunatea's Veil cell shaded?

Offline Bitterman

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2014, 01:15:48 AM »
Was Lunatea's Veil cell shaded?
Yeah it was.

Well you have to take into account, that the two games are visually quite different. The PS2 game has much simpler textures, due to the memory constraints, so the cel shading really fit together with the low resolution textures of the characters and the backgrounds, giving it a cartoony feel. Now the Wii version would be a different tale, with it's higher resolution textures and very busy backgrounds. I'd need to see it in realtime to really judge, but I question how it'd fit together.

As for the crash hypothesis, it's unlikely. Developers use version managing tools like git/svn, which keeps track of all individual projects and backs up their works in a safe cache, part of it's function is to help avoid massive data loss in case something goes wrong. In all likelyhood they just reused Klonoa 2 Klonoa's skeleton and some animations as placeholder and originally opted to replace them. I rarely ever see any sequels/remakes use resources like that from previous games past the late prototype stages.

It's the sign of a low budget and/or the game being rushed to release.

Offline Windbullet

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2014, 07:19:55 AM »
I wish that they had done cel shadeing on character models.
Some cel shadeing via an old cartoon shader in the Open GL backend for dolphin.
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Offline Vincentmrl

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2014, 08:41:34 AM »
They probably removed cel shading for a design reason, doing cel shading is easy as 1. using a shader that does that or 2. duplicating the model, resizing it a bit bigger (depends how thick you want the line), making all the faces go inside out (so that you see black only on the borders) and giving that a black texture. Not hard at all to do.

Offline Gyzyn

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 05:53:43 AM »
^Duplicating the models sounds very inefficient. Wouldn't that twice the number of polygons?

Offline Bitterman

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Re: Something about the Wii remake I've noticed and theory
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 06:49:01 AM »
Looking closer now, Klonoa 2 used some kind of postprocess effect to achieve "cell shading", but it looks more like just a simple 1-2 pixels wide black outline along the edges of the model. True cell shading also affects light shading, but the models in Klonoa had regular per-vertex lighting that was the norm for games at the time. I have no clue how the PS2 hardware allows access to the pixel processor for the programmers, so I guess this was the best they could achieve.

^Duplicating the models sounds very inefficient. Wouldn't that twice the number of polygons?

Yeah, and it would look borked around the joints aswell(eg armpits). I saw a map pack for a game that achieved cell shading like that, it looked pretty convincing though, but it's not the "correct" way to do it, and it'd probably be slow to do in realtime.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 06:51:35 AM by Bitterman »