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Do you think Klonoa should be modernized?

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Offline the_darai

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Modernizing Klonoa
« on: April 05, 2019, 07:33:10 AM »
Okay so I was thinking about what makes a good game so good and kind of stumbled upon modernized games, or rather updating certain aspects of a game while retaining core aspects. While some games do it extremely well (say Mario series) other games struggle with thid concept (like Sonic series.)

I'd like to hear your input. Do you think Klonoa should stay as close as intact as possible? Or do you think certain aspects should be refreshed to sway in a fresh audience?

Offline AlphaRed9X

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Re: Modernizing Klonoa
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2019, 08:09:44 AM »
I'm totally down with any new ideas that can shake up the gameplay, in a good way of course.
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Offline Derpy Hooves

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Re: Modernizing Klonoa
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 08:21:09 AM »
I think shaking it up while maintaining the core of the series would be the best way to try to please everyone
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Offline Windbullet

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Re: Modernizing Klonoa
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2019, 08:36:53 AM »
I think shaking it up while maintaining the core of the series would be the best way to try to please everyone
Kind of like the PS4 God of War, huh? That’s kind of what I was thinking.
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Offline Derpy Hooves

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Re: Modernizing Klonoa
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 08:40:59 AM »
Kind of like the PS4 God of War, huh? That’s kind of what I was thinking.
I havent played Ps4 God of War, kinda was thinking like how Ps4 Ratchet and Clank. If it is like the Ps4 God of War then i guess that works
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Offline Voka~Daemyn

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Re: Modernizing Klonoa
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2019, 01:35:24 PM »
Some of my ideas might be a little bit outside the realm of practicality. It's not like I expect all of these to be possible at once. Also coffee+mildly drunk.  :bad_straight_face:
If I were rich I'd start artillery firing money filled shells at Klonoa works or the next Klonoa development team Best regards from Volk!.

I can't format text well right now but I attempted to make it not such a terrible gigantic tsunami wall.
Anyways here is all the stuff that came raging out in thoughts.

    Keep it 2.5D
    • I'm ok with modernizing some but if at all possible keep the 2.5D gameplay and really good camera work. and since it is 2.5D work could be focused more on environment detail like the background stuff they like to slip in to the game and actual game play as well as story.

    Remember that the game is taking place in a dream or even in a vision.
    • There is no need to always apply real world logic to stuff but also don't go to far into unicorns,rainbows and a bag of sketchy skittles "Unless bonus level for funs" .

    More versatile wind ring
    • I would like to see the wind ring gain more methods of use but not lose it's ease of use and simplicity too much either.

    More enemy variety
    • Definitely I want more enemy variety. In fact I would love this. I would like to see it so the spawns can change based on time of day,Season,Weather,Previous location,Part of story you are in if revisit,Some hidden difficulty multiplier and variability that can or can not be simply set at the start of the game. My preference is to make it an in game action somewhere with no menus involved so that immersion can be kept.

    Moooar story.
    • I don't care if it gets rpg level 100 hours long but then again it would need to be balanced with and into the gameplay so I doubt it would get that crazy long.

    • Or at least as an option. Preferably default voice language option. put in as many languages as wanted but please keep Phantomillian for everyone. Maybe even have a full Phantomile language font as an option too.

    NO! NONE! ZERO! loading screens.
    • Unless it can be slipped in so well no one will notice. By the way title screen is a good spot to do that. That loading screen crap kills immersion. Why in the name of Nahatomb's first crusty dried out old corpse do games still have loading screens when most are running off of HDDs and even SSDs now?! not DVDs. An old PS2 game managed to do this it was called Jak and Daxter on a ps2 with NO hdd and a puny tiny itty bitty amount of ram.

    I do but simultaneously do not want RNG generated levels.
    • If it is just an add on feature as an extra thing however I am ok but I have rarely ever been satisfied with randomly generated levels in games. It always comes down to a pattern and once the player figures out the patterns of generation it gets very very boring fast. However it can still be fun. I've had a few crazy situations in disgaea games years ago because some very rare one off terrifying variables got thrown in. But for me it's either never ever touch randomly generated things or if done at all do it with a lot of variables some of which are extreme and do it very well...as in testing it and making sure it's actually fun and not just data puke everywhere or dumbed down to being way to similar to it's self.

    If there must be an easy difficulty mode
    • Call it story mode. Don't make it default. Don't slow the game play down. Don't give stupid amounts of health or at least no more than 25~33% higher than normal. Spawn a few extra lives and health pick ups "This was smart thinking in Klonoa 1 & 2 if you run around with zero lives. I do not know if Wii Klonoa does this" Cut down the amount enemies or cut out some of the extremely difficult ones. Maybe replace them with sleeping moo. Don't cut down boss move sets but make the more dangerous attacks a little less common. Also don't lower boss HP in fact raise it by 10~20% so the player can learn the boss movements better to prepare for normal gameplay.

    Also for a hard difficulty mode
    • Don't make it so that the player dies in one hit unless it is humanly noob possible to dodge everything
      Otherwise it is just verrrrrrrrrry frustrating 2 hits for a life lost at the very minimum. save 1 hit KO for custom difficulty. Also don't make bosses or enemies take  1 googol 10100 hits or that much hp to beat.

    Make sure the game controls are smooth and responsive!
    • So far Klonoa games have had very responsive control albeit basic and the sliding in Klonoa PS1 DtP can throw people off sometime. Klonoa 2 had it freaking perfect. Klonoa wii. Hhh it would be ok if it were not based on Klonoa PS1 DtP because it does play different even on a real wii and there is a delay now for turning around 180 degrees unlike Klonoa 2. Anyways I like good controls. Bad unresponsive controls also kill immersion and can be fuel and trigger for unneeded rage moments.

    Graphics. Yes but lets not cinematic everything.
    • I like pretties but too many games look similar now. I am entirely ok if graphics must be pegged down for sake of a very good art style. Don't do excessive lights and shaders or the player can't see what they are even doing "stares very hard at Armored Core 5 & Verdict Day" The game play parts of the game need to be clearly visible unless intentional fog or dark or some kind of distorted area.

    I want good music
    • Good music in a game impresses me more than graphics will a lot of times. I want more good music I also won't mind alt themes ever the game had seasons and such.

    Online or Multiplayer of some sort
    • I have some ideas but this probably isn't going to be my best area for ideas. I was thinking maybe have 2 or more players start from a few different interconnected visions that all lead to the same goal or boss at the end. The lazy maybe sane way to connect them would be with portals but I'd rather it be done with land mass connections. Or have some mini Ishra's arks connecting each land mass by sea or cosmic sea also. I want friendly fire. Players need to work with or against one another even against bosses or if they get into the other players vision. Whoever gets to the end of their vision first can travel over to another players vision to help or hinder them in some way. I also wouldn't mind playing as a boss :> or at least an enemy moo also.

    Maybe dabble in VR but I don't know yet
    • VR is an idea I can see where one could make a motion for a wind bullet and holding a Moo. But I don't think that can be done in 2.5D at least not in an easy or fun way. It may be ok as a bonus mode or later add on. But for main game it would be realy hard to pull off I think. VR is still pretty expensive currently.

    Custom difficulty settings
    • For masochists or people who just want to make videos of the story. Maybe make it a hard mode unlock.
      I would want a lot of variables for this though so that I could have the game spawn in crazy enemies all the time if I wanted  :big_smile:

    Branching levels maybe?
    • This is already done in Klonoa 1 and 2 some but I really like it and would like to see it continue to be a thing.

    • This kills creativity and makes sad stressed employees and sad stressed employees makes the king of sorrow cry.

    a special case for game over
    • Klonoa has a false awakening like when you wake up in a dream but thought you actually woke up however you only dreamed about waking up and are still asleep. You false wake up after game over at the beginning of the story only to continue the dream/vision from the very beginning again. Even in easy mode.

    Make sure that the game auto saves to enforce the above idea
    • However if the story is really long maybe have a small few check points in the story it's self to wake up at.

    Cheats if you beat the game on anything higher than normal difficulty
    • have cheats be in it's own difficulty so that it does not affect the save file or regular game play. I really miss developer made cheats some of them were pretty hilarious in older games but nowadays it's like an old memory.

    Configurable controls.
    • For people who like to try to play one handed. I got bored one day and tried this.

    An option to turn off a lot of the shader effects
    • For people who have really bad eye sight or other issues that make focusing pretty hard when lights are all over the screen blaring colors into eyes.

    I think I am out of ideas for now but well if I get anymore I'll make another post.

    Offline Derpy Hooves

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    Re: Modernizing Klonoa
    « Reply #6 on: April 05, 2019, 05:01:44 PM »
    Add multiple characters to play as
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    Offline IsmaDLR

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    Re: Modernizing Klonoa
    « Reply #7 on: April 06, 2019, 07:10:30 PM »
    Modernizing Klonoa should only be done in what the engine, graphics and overall sound quality is concerned.

    Probably mixing the 2.5D stages from the regular games and the regular levels from the Moonlight Museum/Empire of Dreams/Dream Champ Tournament could be something very appreciated if the 2.5D levels end up being very long.

    Also, if modernizing Klonoa needs to be done, it should be expanding on the Wind Bullet stuff with more complex mechanics. Adding a small hub for whenever you're not on any levels and do other stuff may work, ala TokiToki City from the Xenoverse games, but a lot smaller.

    Offline Mobotropolis

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    Re: Modernizing Klonoa
    « Reply #8 on: April 07, 2019, 03:16:41 AM »
    Klonoa is very solid, gameplay-wise.

    The most successful of franchises (Mario, Pokemon, and to a lesser extent Sonic) all seem to make a point to keep the basic mechanics of the game in there and simply build off the things that work for them. Mario and Sonic are about getting to the goal. Pokemon is about becoming Champion. Klonoa is about solving puzzles to get to the goal. Let's keep up with that.

    Think the two main things that kept Klonoa from being as successful as it could've been;

    - The Timing of Its Release

    Door to Phantomile was released towards the end of the Playstation's lifespan and the Golden Age of Platformer Games. The market was saturated with games of varying qualities which made it hard for New IPs to stand out.

    - The Story

    20 years later there is still some debate about what exactly happened in Klonoa's games, the continuty and the mechanics of how Klonoa's world works. And this is several games and other media in.

    Being that I'm a bit of a writer, I started working on a pitch for a reboot of the series in the form of either animated shorts or perhaps a comic. It was meant to make the story of Klonoa more cohesive and act as a means to introduce newcomers to the franchise ...

    ... but like many of things I start it lay unfinished. :embarassed:

    Offline Painty

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    Re: Modernizing Klonoa
    « Reply #9 on: April 08, 2019, 12:03:25 PM »
    Ooh, creative expression.~

    Not sure if I would call this “modernizing”, but at least these are changes/additions to the series I would make for a hypothetical, new game. Lord knows we could use one of those.

    Gameplay Mechanics
    Mostly the same, but use trigger buttons to shoot a windbullet into the foreground/background. Being able to shoot while running would be very helpful. Maybe you should be able to shoot up and down too? LV boarding segments will make a return.

    A lot of enemies have their own attack patterns, making grabbing them another part of the challenge. They'll be ones whose sole purpose is to harm you, and new enemies that grant you new powers, like one that protects you from above while holding it, or one that gives you multiple projectiles you have to throw to get rid of.

    Elements from the GBA games would be an amazing addition, such as the Box, the timed Boomie (should probably be made into a different species of enemy to differentiate their functions from regular Boomies), and the arrows (which should also have a redesign.)

    For every vision you met a set Dreamstone quota, you unlock a piece of exclusive concept art. Special collectibles in each vision include three stars that unlock a door to a short challenge stage where you can win a medal. For every medal you collect you unlock a costume set, which derives from Klonoa's various past outfits and designs, as well as some of his friends and foes (and possibly random Namco characters). You can even mix and match costume parts. In each vision there are also six bubbles of nightmares trapping fragments of a very short passage. When all bubbles in the game are popped, the resulting entry will tell of something incredibly important to the lore...

    You'll also unlock an extremely challenging Extra Vision, where everything you've learned will be put to the test. If you collected all medals when you finish this vision, you'll unlock a second Extra Vision, complete with obstacles that literally troll you.  :big_smile: Finally, if you manage to survive this with all concept art unlocked, you'll be treated to the True Final Vision, comprising of a cruel three-phase boss. If you're strong enough to defeat it, you'll experience a special story segment. If you're crazy enough to defeat it with the hardest difficulty settings, you'll experience an incredibly important extra segment.

    As an homage to Balue's Tower, the first two Extra Visions will have hilarious cutscenes that pay no attention to continuity or reason. (For example, in the second one Klonoa boards away from a giant Pac-Man with Stepping Wind playing in the background.) However, the third will actually reveal how Klonoa managed to come back to this dream world after he leaves at the end of the game.
    Custom Difficulty
    Before you start a new game, you can select from a few difficulty options:
    Hearts: Twelve, Six, Three.
    Windbullet: Long or Short range

    After you fully complete all visions with three hearts and short range windbullet, you'll unlock one-hit KO, as well as Nightmare Mode, where all enemies have chaotic attack patterns and no items appear except for checkpoints and the 100 dreamstone life-up bonus. Twelve hearts would be useful in this mode.

    While I know the Wiimake is preeeetty controversial among the community, I personally think this is THE most beautiful game in the series, aesthetically speaking at least. Detailed backgrounds, vibrant colors... I would actually love to have this style of... well, style, in a new game, only with 60 FPS next-gen graphics, motion-blur optional. Regarding the design of the world: I think the overall atmosphere should more closely follow the "dream" aesthetic. Not really making every vision LV's Maze of Memories, more so just being a little more varied and creative with the theming. Not exactly sure how tbh  :sick:

    In the vein of DTP, menu screens such as vision select and options could follow a pop-up book aesthetic. As you progress in the game, you'd unlock visions in an overworld similar to LV's, but comprised of a foldable map coming from the book, complete with pop-up displays.

    I have a fondness for the delectable techno/European folk (is that what it was?) fusion of DTP, but I also loved the more varied, fleshed-out orchestral soundtrack of LV. Why not integrate all of these genres, only this time with a real orchestra? Also more slap bass. Not kidding.

    I've heard some people complain that Klonoa games follow a basic anime plotline. Personally, I immensely enjoyed LV's story, but I can imagine how some aspects of it fit into that mold. Cliche or not, I feel like the story has even greater potential, and I'd like to see it fulfilled.

    Furthermore, it would be a dream come true if there were some way all of the games could fit into a concrete timeline (none of that "they're dreams, so it doesn't matter" junk).

    I might add to this later, but so far this is what I’d do.